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talk a little bit about evolution and

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membranes and amino acids and hopefully

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you'll get something out of it so I'm

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kind of looking at the origin of life

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from an evolutionary perspective and so

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we know a little bit about what life

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looks like today we know a little bit

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about what the earth would have looked

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like you know before life existed and so

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we're kind of interested in how we get

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from one to the other and so that kind

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of guiding principle that we're going to

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use and take advantage of that a lot of

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people here are doing as well is natural

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selection which stated in a very simple

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way is that things that happen to work

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are more likely to stick around and so

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I'm going to focus on proteins a fair

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amount because there's something that's

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very important to life as we know it so

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you know about twenty percent of you is

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made of protein and they're one that's

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very problematic from an origin of life

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perspective because they're very

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difficult to make the way that modern

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proteins are synthesized uses enzymes

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which are already made of protein so you

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have kind of a chicken and egg problem

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to begin with and some sort of

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informational polymer to you know figure

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out how you want to stick your proteins

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together but there are other problems

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too so even if you have a really good

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assembly mechanisms if amino acids

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wanted to just spontaneously stick

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together you know you still need to have

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them around and reasonably high

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quantities which is something that I'm

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not going to address too much directly

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today you know it's not that evolution

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would ever be like hey if we had amino

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acids we could make these proteins which

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would be super useful so we'll make

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amino acids it's not how it works it

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uses things that are already around and

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so kind of defining life is a little bit

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tricky especially you know at what point

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you move from non-life to life and so

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the kind of characteristic that I'm

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gonna going to focus on is that life is

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out of equilibrium it's different from

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its surroundings and so generally it

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uses some sort of energy source to

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increase organization and order and so

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kind of with this in mind a couple

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things that we really want or some sort

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of metabolism to make useful molecules

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and some sort of enclosure to keep your

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useful molecules together right so it's

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not enough just having all the pieces

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like if you dissolve a human and a

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bathtub it's no longer alive even though

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all the molecules are still there so I

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think this is a very important component

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and then you want some sort of

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robustness and replication you want

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something to stick around for long

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enough that it can make more of itself

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but i'm not going to focus on that too

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much today i'm really going to focus on

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kind of the enclosures aspect in

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addition to the amino acids and proteins

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and so we know a couple things about you

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know prebiotic membranes we have some

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plausible ones at least that could have

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existed and these are mainly kind of

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fatty acids fatty acid vesicles but they

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have some problems we know that they're

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not perfect for you know primitive

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enclosures and they're kind of biggest

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problem is that you need really high

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fatty acid concentrations in order to

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get these things to form and to stay

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formed so even if you make a vesicle out

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of fatty acids if you move it to a place

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where there's low kind of dissolved

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fatty acid concentration it falls apart

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you know and then it they're generally

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incompatible with divalent salts which

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we probably had around too and I think

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one of the things that is a really good

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idea and Roy black has really been kind

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of champion the champion this idea is

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that inclusions and the vesicles can

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change their properties and very

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dramatic ways and might be very helpful

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for getting something that is prebiotic

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irrelevant and would actually work and

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so I'm going to look a little bit how

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membranes systems exist in modern life

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and so they're largely made of

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surfactants it's one of the main

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components and they're generally you

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know in very simple terms molecules that

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have one side that likes interacting

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with water in one side that really

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doesn't and so they kind of form these

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by layered membranes that separate you

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know the outside of yourself from the

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inside

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keeps on things out keep some things in

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but that's not the only thing that is

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you know in our modern membranes there's

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a lot of proteins and these proteins

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perform a lot of very important

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functions you know to life and so you

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know they keep everything structured the

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control transport of material inside and

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out of cells you know they have a pretty

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large role in signaling whether it's

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getting a cell to swim around or getting

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me to stand up here and talk at you and

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maybe surprisingly to a lot of people

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they have a really big role in energy

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metabolism so a lot of the proteins that

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are involved in photosynthesis and

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oxidative phosphorylation and actually

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membrane proteins and so looking back at

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the relationship between amino acids and

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proteins kind of the local amino acid

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composition of a protein controls its

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function and a lot of ways and so a very

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simple example of this is you know just

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a membrane protein I have a channel type

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thing drawn here very crudely you

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generally have these kind of hydrophobic

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amino acids in spots worth interacting

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with the kind of hydrophobic part of the

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membrane and so it's kind of stable in

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the membrane and wants to stay there and

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then you have this hydrophilic stuff

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that forms your channel and so I think

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an important question to ask is do you

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actually need or you know can the amino

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acids perform some of the roles that

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proteins do today without being

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assembled into proteins and so some of

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the techniques that I use to investigate

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kind of similar questions are surface

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surface sensitive technique so I'll look

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at a single mono layer of surfactant on

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the water surface this is nice because

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it's a very controlled system even if

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it's a little less relevant so you get

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to kind of scrape these barriers across

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the water surface and you can control

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the you know relative surface

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concentration of your surfactants and

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you get thermodynamic information by

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measuring surface tension as you change

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the surface concentration

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you can use this in conjunction with

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other techniques like Brewster angle

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microscopy which is really neat because

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you get to you know basically take

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pictures of single molecule thick films

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at water surfaces and so kind of an

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example of some of the interactions

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between you know a membrane type system

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and a you know amino acid it's not the

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most prebiotic irrelevant I don't think

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people thought phenylalanine was around

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prebiotic Lee and dvb-c certainly was

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not it's a big complex molecule that all

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of you are full of but at any rate I

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think it's a good example of kind of a

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very strong perturbation by an inclusion

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into a membrane and so phenylalanine

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incorporates into this mono layer of

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dppc and you know right away between

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these two brewster angle microscopy

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pictures you can see there's a huge

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change in morphology it has kind of a

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condensing effect on some regions of the

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film and you know alters the stability

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by by interacting with dppc in

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favourable ways and you know kind of an

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interesting point about all of this is

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that different amino acids behave very

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differently even if they look very

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similar so it's not always going to be

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easy to predict how things are going to

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behave so up here I just have like the

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solubilities of these different

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compounds and they're all across the

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board and it actually turns out the key

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to understanding the differences in this

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system is the clustering of these amino

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acids so these two like to cluster with

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themselves once they're inside the

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membrane they don't cluster in solution

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but in the membrane they do and this

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really controls their kind of membrane

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altering behavior and I don't know how

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general this is but I think it's a

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really neat effect particularly because

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if you have you know aggregation a lot

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of the times that's chirality dependent

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and so it gives you something that you

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know it's potentially selective for

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chirality and so

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you know I didn't talk about the most

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prebiotic irrelevant system but I think

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that it's important for illustrating a

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point and then you know that the other

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issue is that the types of membrane

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alterations that you want by your

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specific inclusions are going to vary

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dramatically based on the composition of

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whatever you know type of membrane

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you're talking about so if you have

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something that's like a fatty acid

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membrane that's already very permeable

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but it's you know not very stable you're

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probably going to preferentially select

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inclusions that are increased going to

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increase the stability but if you have a

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different type of membrane you know like

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modern phospholipid membranes are very

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stable but they're not permeable and so

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you're you know those types of membrane

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systems you're going to select for

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things that are going to increase

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permeability so you have to remember

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that when you're looking for inclusions

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to perturb something that depends what

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properties your your initial thing has

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you know then the other point is that

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for any prebiotic scenario we're not

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going to have you know a single isolated

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compound or a mixture of two it's going

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to be something that's much more complex

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and it's going to have its own set of

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criteria so it's something that's very

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hard to investigate but I think worth

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doing and you know kind of likewise

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having a variety of amino acids is going

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to let you kind of selectively modify

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different characteristics depending on

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which amino acids want to incorporate

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and then kind of the final point that I

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wanted to make is that I think that

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membrane systems are very promising for

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as far as making the transition from

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amino acids to proteins just because the

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amino acids kind of have a role to play

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in the first place but also because you

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have a couple of advantages so if you

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are getting something that's kind of

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intercalating into a membrane in the

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first place you're inherently increasing

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the concentration you're moving from a

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three-dimensional space into a

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two-dimensional one you know the

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clustering allows the organization like

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I said before and potentially is chiral

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e selective which is another interesting

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topic and it's also a very

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chemical environment so normally making

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peptide bonds is unfavorable in water

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and so the membrane is kind of a

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hydrophobic environment that might help

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we've actually seen that water

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interfaces can be favorable for amino

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acid or for peptide bond formation in

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the past but I think the most

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interesting part of this is that it

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doesn't necessarily acquire any sort of

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informational polymer to assemble

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because you're already kind of

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intercalating into the membrane and

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clustering in a way that's useful and so

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that's kind of your selection for making

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a useful protein in the first place huh

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and so with that I'd like to acknowledge

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my group and some of that collaborators

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that I've worked with in a little bit of

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the research that I showed and a little

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have you experimented with the different

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amino acids for membrane stability

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because you pointed out the theoretical

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stability so building upon that work

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because you have a whole suite to work

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from yeah it's kind of an interesting

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thing because in a lot of ways it

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depends what you what type of stability

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you want so you know really I should

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probably move to be moving a little bit

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more than the vesicle type of systems

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where you can see what it takes to make

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your vesicle fall apart resistance to

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assault and things like that stability

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is kind of confusing for looking between

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two dimensional and kind of three

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dimensional vesicle systems do you think

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some would actually provide divest

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ability to divalent cations which is a

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great problem with fatty acids I think

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that there is almost definitely

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something that will whether it's an

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amino acid or not i think is

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questionable but the magic of

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phosphocholine right yeah

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I was just wondering it's not a amino

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acid but incorporation of cholesterol

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into the membranes yes since I tried

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that and so how that affects their

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stability cuz I know that's how cells

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regulate it now with yeah with modern

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cell membrane certainly cholesterol has

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a huge role to play I'm not sure it's

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going to be the most useful one for

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fatty acids because generally what it

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does in in kind of phospholipid type

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membranes is it makes them a little bit

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more fluid I'm kind of more permeable

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which is something that's not really an

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issue for fatty acids to begin with so

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00:13:52,740 --> 00:13:51,010
it's it's almost like you're trying to

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fix the wrong problem if you're using a

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molecule like that fatty needs the